Do We Despise and Criticize the Holy Spirit? Thoughts on Miracles and Our Hatred of Them

   

Image by darkrigel

False prophets, charlatans, and miracle hocking hucksters abound. One need only peruse through late night television, past the “Will it blend” infomercial as an over happy man tries to blend an Ipad or some other nonsense—as if that strength might help when making a smoothy. TBN and other such stations may carry a tent revival or some healing meeting in which people come forward in wheel chairs and in walkers. People with back pains, stomach cramps, and all sorts of ailments would stand and be slain by some invisible sword which the speak wielding, swinging and pounding the foreheads of the hurting, crippled, and lame. Often enough, one may see the person convulse on the ground or get up and run around the sanctuary.

Are these healings for real? Or put another way, are these televised miracles so fantastical that we must inevitably conclude this is all farce meant to entrap the gullible and those desperate enough to believe in such miracles—so that dying old grannies can send all their wealth to some televised pastoral personality?

It is easy to be cynical toward televangelists.

But the problem stems so much deeper.

We glibly live as if the Holy Spirit does not exist—or if He does, He is impotent and without power to do miracles or change our sin. Sure, we may say He does. But do we really believe that?

As a middle-school student, I attended Ambassador Christian Academy—an evangelical private school much like all the others which are scattered across the United States. Each Thursday during chapel, my friends and I, cynics and self-righteous know-it-alls to be sure, would sit and criticize the pastor. We would call him “old gobble neck” since he had a long drooping under-chin of loose skin and when he got really excited during his sermons, it would giggle and shack.

Our mocking gobbling turkey calls to one another were only satiated by the new “reverend” who came to teach at the school. He was a bit charismatic and spoke of angels and speaking in tongues and other such etherial “nonsense.” I liked my Christianity in a box. No crazy stuff please.

One Thursday, while “filled with the spirit” during worship, he began running around the sanctuary in jubilation. In mocking tone, we joined him prancing and running about like some spirit filled follow-the-leader.

As I look back on that now, I see what a mockery I made of the man and of the spirit moving in people—well, I made fun of anything and everything really, especially if it was Christian.

The notion that the spirit might compel a man to run around in joy, that angels might appear, or tongues might be spoken was simply nonsense. Moreover, the other “crazy” stuff like gold dust appearing all over people, jewels suddenly appearing, manna from heaven falling to the ground, and all other sorts of miracles seem foolish.

But the reality is, the Holy Spirit has done some radical and crazy things—only a small portion of which is recorded in the scripture. But what has been recorded is by no means out of character or out of line with what most American Evangelicals mock.

Are we stifling the spirit though our unbelief as 1 Thessalonians 5:16-22 implies?

“Rejoice always!
Pray constantly.
Give thanks in everything,
for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.
Don’t stifle the Spirit.
Don’t despise prophecies,
but test all things.
Hold on to what is good.
Stay away from every form of evil.”

Often enough, we skip past the testing part and just despise prophecies, miracles, and anything that contradicts modern sensibilities.

How do you all think we should treat such “miracles”?

What do you think about the “crazy stuff”—gold dust, jewels, and other such things?

THEOLOGY21 is a co-op of authors dedicated to renovating theology for a new generation, taking the ancient truths of scripture and theology and speaking to the post-Christian culture of the 21st century. To keep up-to-date on all things THEOLOGY21, Give our Facebook page a “like”, follow our twitter page, add yourself to our email list, or subscribe to our feed!
 
__________________________________________________

  • Jonathan,

    You asked:
    How do you all think we should treat such “miracles”?

    What do you think about the “crazy stuff”—gold dust, jewels, and other such things?
    ———————————-

    I’ll drive that tanker.  I’ll take this Pepsi challenge.  I’m your huckleberry.

    1.  Miracles are not called to be placed under our scrutiny/assessment, say, as prophecy is.  I fully endorse, support, believe, and have seen many miracles.  Like the kind that make the hairs on your arm stand on end.  I have also seen many people “fail” at attempts of the miraculous.

    2.  Hmm.  Again, I can’t say.  Do I see a plausibility or relevance to a person who has gold flakes come off their head?  Nope.  I do not.

    I am a balanced charismatic.  I fully enjoy relating to the Lord through this mind He has given me and I also fully enjoy walking in the Spirit of His power.  Like Paul, I know I can flow in reasonable and Spirit-led debating, and I can also flow in demonstrations of the Spirit’s power.  Yes, it is all about Him, of course.  I, in and of myself, have naught to do with wisdom/knowledge or manifestations of His strength.  I simply get to be a part of His present-day ministry, as He sees fit to use me or not.

    Good topic, Jonathan.  It seems to me there are two camps: The hyper-emotional Pentecostals or the tight-lipped Fundamentalists when it comes to the ministry of the Spirit and His purpose.  I’m in the middle, personally.

    My spiritual father told me once, “If it isn’t practical, it probably isn’t Spiritual.”  I dig that.

  • Mmargarit

    They have been many abuses within the Charismatic Movement. Things that would just make your head shake in amazement. Scripture that comes to mind is, Matthew 7:15, “Beware of the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.” And then He says in verse 21, “Not everyone,” and still in the context of false teachers, “who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of my father who is in Heaven, many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your Name and in Your Name cast out demons, and in Your Name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you.  Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.'” 

    Spiritual discernment from the Biblical perspective is unnecessary. It’s really a very simple system of
    bio feedback. Again and again Charismatic hear the same message. Put your mind on hold, ignore your reason, listen to your feelings, that kind of extreme mysticism contradicts everything Scripture teaches about true discernment. Spiritual gifts are not supposed to produce mindless chaos and mindless pandemonium in the church. Nor are they to be a way that a person can show off his spirituality before the crowd. They’re never to be used selfishly, they’re never to be used in some kind of performance, they’re never to be used to cause you to lapse into a spiritual coma or put other people in a state of unconsciousness.

  • Like Donald, I have seen miracles happen in my life, in my family, in missions, and in the community.  I was not prepared at all for what I saw.  I think the way we should treat it is to talk about it, take some leaps of faith, and see what God will do.

    A huge thing about miracles in my life, is my faith increased by hearing people that I trust give testimonies about what God did.  Forget the late-night tv people… if you are my best friend, or my wife, and I know you got healed (as an example)… I will have more faith to believe.  Just like a child.

    As far as gold dust, jewels, and all the other “manifestations” of the Holy Spirit… I have never seen it so I can not say.  I don’t want to limit my mind and say that God couldn’t do that.  What I would say is in agreement with Mmargarit and Donald- there must be order and purpose behind it.  Without seeing it, I just don’t know how I can say that there is order and purpose.

  • I agree that we must look holistically—with mind and spirit. But there is some difficulties with this issue. What exactly do we mean by “mind.” If we mean current rational thought, than we have a problem. Miracles don’t make any sense to human logic or reason. And in fact, that is why many say that to believe in the miracles of Jesus Christ, one must check their brain at the door. That being said, we must also look at what the scripture says. The scripture can not be the source for all spiritual things. It is certainly trustworthy—but not all that Jesus taught was recorded. “Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.” John 21:25 

    Moreover, even those things which he did teach that we don’t have weren’t enough. Jesus said that there was much more that he wanted to teach but that He would leave that to the Holy Spirit. (See John 14)

    With all this, we must realize that Sola Scriptura is not good enough. We need the Holy Spirit as well. Now, of course we are called to test everything—most certainly. But we must not despise things just because they are not mentioned in the Bible. Such may be the case for gold dust, the dropping of jewels, instantaneous transportation (Ezekiel 8:3), est.

  • Well said. We must not be so skeptical that we deny the truth of what the spirit teaches but we must also not think that the spiritual gifts are everything. They are not. I am rather skeptical as it is with everything having to do with the Bible. I recognize there is much more beyond the Bible that is true as well and I find that even more difficult. 

  • “I am rather skeptical as it is with everything having to do with the
    Bible. I recognize there is much more beyond the Bible that is true as
    well and I find that even more difficult.”

    Well, now….that’s a can of spiritual worms if I ever saw one.

  • Mmargarit

    What we mean by mind, is to have the mind of Christ; 1 Corinthians 2:16 “But we have the mind of Christ.” If we are talking about a unregenerate person, then checking their brain at the door would be a true statement. But since we, as believers have the mind of Christ, we are to test everything with Scripture. If the Scriptures are not the source of all spiritual things, then we are going to be susceptible in being “tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine”, as it has happened in the Charismatic movement. It would also mean that His Word is not complete and could never be trustworthy.

    Jesus did many things that were not recorded in scripture. But where scripture is silent, so we must also be. We cannot speculate as to what were those things that He did,  or add an opinion as to what could have taken place. Going down the path of speculations, will only lead to mysticism and into a path of liberal theology. Once you start questioning the validity or the absence of scripture, is the problem that we are facing now within the church. And is the opportune time for the enemy to put on the sheep’s clothing and enter through another door, offering counterfeit Gospels, miracles, tongues…etc, etc… Postmodernism; The Emergent Church for example.

    Sola Scriptura and the Holy Spirit are one. By saying that you can separate the work of the Holy Spirit and Scripture, is robbing God of His glory and saying that He hasn’t given us a true revelation of Himself. If this principle of the sufficiency and clarity of the Word is true in the Old Testament, we can assume that it is all the more true in the New. The New Testament gloriously fulfills what the Old Testament promises. But we do not have to assume it; rather, the New Testament makes clear that the character of Scripture is to be sufficient and clear. One example of that is found in 2 Timothy 3, 4.

    How much can we know of God? But a little, but what small amount we know, we want it to be accurate. To do this we must know doctrine, which means the teachings in the Bible. You can’t have a relationship with God without the Word; it is central, nothing more, nothing less. It is not an option.

    A.W. Tozer said it like this “The word doctrine means simply religious beliefs held and taught. It is the sacred task of all Christians, first as believers and then as teachers of religious beliefs, to be certain that these beliefs correspond exactly to truth. A precise agreement between belief and fact constitutes soundness in doctrine. We cannot afford to have less.”(A.W. Tozer, Man, The Dwelling Place Of God ) 

  • Mmargarit

    There is a tremendous difference between the popular definition of a miracle in our culture and the narrow technical definition of a miracle that theologians work with in their science. We can often have serious communication problems when people ask me whether I believe that God is doing miracles today. If by a miracle we mean that God is alive and well and running his world by his providence, affecting the course of human events, then by all means God is doing those things. If the question is asking whether or not God is answering prayers, then I would say emphatically, yes, God is answering prayers. If people are asking whether the providence of God is bringing extraordinary things to pass today, I would say absolutely. Does God heal people in response to prayer? I would say yes to all of those questions because I’m convinced that God is alive and well and doing all of those things. If we define a miracle as a supernatural work of God, then I would say that God certainly does supernatural works today. The rebirth of a human soul cannot be done by natural means; only God can do it through his power, and God is certainly doing that every day. If that’s what people mean by a miracle, then God is doing miracles today. Some people define a miracle so broadly as to say that even the birth of a child is a miracle because it’s a marvelous thing that couldn’t happen apart from the power of God. So they would define a miracle as any wonderful thing that happens by the power of God. If that’s the definition of miracle, then again I would say that, absolutely, God is performing them today. 

    However, we may be speaking of miracle in the technical sense of an action performed against the laws of nature— God circumventing the very laws he put into motion—for example, bringing life out of death or something out of nothing, such as Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead when his body was in a state of decomposition after four days in the tomb. No, I don’t think that God is doing that kind of miracle today. I certainly believe God could raise every human being in every cemetery in this world today if he wanted to. But I don’t think he is performing those kinds of miracles today. The chief reason he did those things in biblical days was to certify revelation as divine—to back up what he spoke with evidence of his authority. Since we now have the Bible, other, miraculous sources of revelation are no longer necessary.

    Jonathan, and if there’s some skepticism regarding the Word of God, then for sure, you could be open to all sorts of counterfeit miracles and wonders. But they’re sure not from the God of the Bible.

  • Awesome!

  • Have you ever seen the documentary “The Finger of God”? That movie offended so many of my thoughts towards miracles but I couldn’t really stay cynical. This was a documentary shot by a guy that didn’t really believe in miracles and the story of him encountering them first hand and having his life changed. 

    There was no hype, no drama, no production. Just people being encountered by the love of God and the supernatural being released.It truly rocked my world. It may even rock yours. You know, if you aren’t already despising miracles before being open to the fact that God is not in a box.  :)

  • So God isn’t defying the laws of nature today because He no longer needs to do that? Because He did it once and that should be enough?

    That sounds like a pretty strict governor being put on the God of the universe.

  • Mmargarit,

    You said:

    “No, I don’t think that God is doing that kind of miracle today. I
    certainly believe God could raise every human being in every cemetery in
    this world today if he wanted to. But I don’t think he is performing
    those kinds of miracles today. The chief reason he did those things in
    biblical days was to certify revelation as divine—to back up what he
    spoke with evidence of his authority. Since we now have the Bible,
    other, miraculous sources of revelation are no longer necessary.”

    Ouch.  This is scary as far as I am concerned.  Scary and dangerous.  Let me guess, you follow John MacArthur, don’t you?  I would ask what you thought of 1 Corinthians 13:8-12, but I think I already know your stance on this.

    Again, scary.

  • T,

    Now that we have The Holy Bible, we don’t need certain works and gifts of the Holy Spirit, because perfection has already arrived, and in some things the Holy Spirit apparently wasn’t perfect enough.

    (Yikes!)

  • So….tongues is a counterfeit work of the enemy?

    Really?

    Hmmm.

  • i’m just gonna throw this out there about the whole gold dust/jewels-topic.  in my opinion, there is alot of emphasis on the dust/jewels tat takes away from the focus being on God.

    i suppose the argument could be made that anything in a charasmatic/pentecostal church distracts the attention away from God, but tongues, healing, dancing, and other such “behaviors” are, from what i have come to understand, biblical. the gold dust and jewels doesn’t have any solid biblical backing.  I’ve heard it said, “why would God manifest His presence through His asphalt?”

    I’d much rather be in a service where people are enamored and awestruck by God and His heart, instead of one where people talk about seeing gold dust.

  • I don’t think I could put God into a box.  I mean, let’s be real…there just ain’t a box big enough.  :)

  • Mmargarit

    For what purpose would God use an ancient, foreign language to convey a message or His revelation? Isn’t that why He gave us His written word? Again I say. Is the fullness of his revelation (Bible) not good or sufficient enough? Or does He have to do signs and wonders in order for us to be satisfied with Him being the eternal God.

  • He does signs and wonders because not everyone can “read”.  He is the God of the everyday, the common, the practical, and the relevant.  Jesus is The Word.  Where Jesus is, there is the Spirit.  Signs and wonders speak volumes and are not dependent upon translation or a credible “Bible teacher” to make their point.

    Consider also:

    When Paul went into Corinth, he established a local body there not by using clever words, but in a demonstration of the Spirit’s power.

    Now that the Bible is completed and put into one tome, do you believe that this demonstration, any demonstration, of the Spirit’s power is no longer necessary?

    Yes, you sound like a MacArthur devotee.

    As to the “ancient, foreign language”, to what are you referring?  The 120 that poured out into the streets of Jerusalem during Pentecost spoke myriad languages.

    I fear you shall only continue to tote the cessationist talking points line.  You remind me of Galatians.  All letter and no Spirit.

    The Holy Spirit does not perform parlor tricks or circus acts.  Your distaste of such things is understandable, but you do now that TBN and their lot do not represent the wholeness of Spirit-filled believers, right?  There are those of us out here who walk in balance and in His power, beyond an intellectual or emotional “salvation”.

  • Mmargarit

    And it is that view that most Pentecostals and Charismatics hold. That whatever the Holy Spirit did in the past, He is still doing now; that miracles go on and on as long as there is the Holy Spirit. They say the Holy Spirit never changed. They say the early church changed. It became doctrinal, it became formal, it became ritualistic, and so the Holy Spirit pulled back His power and now after nearly 2,000 years, He’s released it again. The thing that always amazes me is if the Holy Spirit were going to release His power, why would He release it to authenticate the people who teach bad theology? If He wanted to authenticate anybody with miracles, you could be sure it would be those who were the truest and the purest and the most profound and Biblical and the most skilled and dedicated teachers of the Word of God who were teaching the truth.

    Many Pentecostals and Charismatics talk about the restoration of the New Testament Holy Spirit power through their movement. They say they’re doing again what the apostles did in the first century. Is that true? If so, why do modern revelations, visions, tongues, healings and miracles differ so dramatically from those done by the apostles? And why is it that they’re associated with people who do not understand properly the truth of God? And if miracles and signs and wonders are so vital, then why is it that for nearly 2,000 years the Holy Spirit didn’t do any? You mean there weren’t even a few people around who would have been worthy of such?Should Christians today expect miracles? Is Oral Roberts right when he said, “Everyone of you out there should expect your miracle today”? Are we supposed to be able to do miracles, heal people, raise the dead?

  • Mmargarit

    I guess He’s raising the dead these days, or turning water into wine, or making the paraplegic walk… More like putting Jesus’s face on tortillas and people calling it a miracle. Unless you or anyone else has solid proof that he is doing, “signs and wonders” of the Old and New testaments, I wouldn’t assume or pretend that He is doing that today. Also the word “miracle” is nowhere found in the original text of the Bible. A “miracle” or signs and wonders, are and is not, finding a close space at the mall, or the birth of a baby, or when you are thinking about someone, and they just happen to call as they are in your thoughts. Those are things that happen every single day as normal.  

    A miracle then is an extraordinary event wrought by God that cannot be explained by any natural means. That would be the technical definition. It might sound something like this. A miracle is an event in nature so extraordinary in itself and so coinciding with the prophecy or command of a religious teacher or leader as fully to warrant the conviction on the part of those who witness it, that God has wrought it with the design of certifying that this teacher or leader has been commissioned by

    him. Now, that takes us to another dimension, and I wanted to read that. That’s from Augustus Strong written way back in 1907, and what he is saying there is that anytime a miracle occurs, it is associated with the certification of a teacher or a leader commissioned by God. 

    In fact, miracles in Scripture, all the way from Exodus through Deuteronomy to Nehemiah through the Psalms, Jeremiah, Daniel, into the New Testament, Matthew, Mark, John, Acts, Romans, 2 Corinthians, Thessalonians and Hebrews, miracles are called signs and wonders. They are signs, and what are signs for? A sign is to point to something, and what were they signs of? They were signs authenticating a divinely commissioned teacher. When God supernaturally, superhumanly suspended natural law and acted in human history, He did so as a sign to point to a teacher who was speaking for Him.

  • Mmargarit

    I guess He’s raising the dead these days, or turning water into wine, or making the paraplegic walk… More like putting Jesus’s face on tortillas and people calling it a miracle. Unless you or anyone else has solid proof that he is doing, “signs and wonders” of the Old and New testaments, I wouldn’t assume or pretend that He is doing that today. Also the word “miracle” is nowhere found in the original text of the Bible. A “miracle” or signs and wonders, are and is not, finding a close space at the mall, or the birth of a baby, or when you are thinking about someone, and they just happen to call as they are in your thoughts. Those are things that happen every single day as normal.  

    A miracle then is an extraordinary event wrought by God that cannot be explained by any natural means. That would be the technical definition. It might sound something like this. A miracle is an event in nature so extraordinary in itself and so coinciding with the prophecy or command of a religious teacher or leader as fully to warrant the conviction on the part of those who witness it, that God has wrought it with the design of certifying that this teacher or leader has been commissioned by

    him. Now, that takes us to another dimension, and I wanted to read that. That’s from Augustus Strong written way back in 1907, and what he is saying there is that anytime a miracle occurs, it is associated with the certification of a teacher or a leader commissioned by God. 

    In fact, miracles in Scripture, all the way from Exodus through Deuteronomy to Nehemiah through the Psalms, Jeremiah, Daniel, into the New Testament, Matthew, Mark, John, Acts, Romans, 2 Corinthians, Thessalonians and Hebrews, miracles are called signs and wonders. They are signs, and what are signs for? A sign is to point to something, and what were they signs of? They were signs authenticating a divinely commissioned teacher. When God supernaturally, superhumanly suspended natural law and acted in human history, He did so as a sign to point to a teacher who was speaking for Him.

  • I think my main point here your presupposition. Your assumption is that God “won’t” perform a modern-day miracle. It seems that you have already made your mind up. There were many that witnessed Jesus’ miracles and still didn’t believe He was the son of God. Could it be that they already made their mind up?

    If you’re interested, here’s a great (long) article about how we form our beliefs. Essentially the premise is that when we hold so strongly to our beliefs, even if we encounter factual contradictory evidence, it simply strengthens our resolve in our original position:

    http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/the-backfire-effect/

    If you believe God is indeed all-powerful, it may be a safer position to take believing that it is possible for Him to perform a modern day miracle. 

    You still get to “test” what you see, but at least you remain open to the possibility so if and when it happens, you won’t be have already made up your mind that it isn’t possible and so deceive yourself.

    Delusion is the most frightful of mindsets because its very definition precludes you from realizing your state.

  • Mmargarit

    Let us stick to the subject, which is “Miracles” or signs and wonders, as I like to call them. Not my “unbelief of God and His wonders, as I’m being accused for not accepting a position. So God now is using signs and wonders of the Bible, because people can’t read? Really? Where? When? In which way. Have documentation for all those signs and wonders? 

    People’s hunger for the mysterious and the astonishing and phenomena is a little unsurpassed in the history of the church. It’s pretty popular stuff in the secular world and it’s found its way into the church. Eager to witness miracles, many people seem willing to believe that almost anything unusual is a genuine heavenly wonder. The problem with that is it poses a severe danger for the church because it plays right into the hands of Satan, doesn’t it? False wonders and false signs, false miracles, extremely believable ones, the Bible tells us will be the primary tool of Satan in the end times. Jesus said, “False Christ and false prophets
    will arise and will show great signs and wonders so as to mislead if possible even the elect.” Then He added as if knowing that many would ignore the warning, “Behold, I have told you in advance,”
    Matthew 24:24-25.Again, as I stated in case anyone is confused regarding my position.If by a miracle we mean that God is alive and well and running his world by his providence, affecting the course of human events, then by all means God is doing those things. If the question is asking whether or not God is answering prayers, then I would say emphatically, yes, God is answering prayers. If people are asking whether the providence of God is bringing extraordinary things to pass today, I would say absolutely. Does God heal people in response to prayer? I would say yes to all of those questions because I’m convinced that God is alive and well and doing all of those things. If we define a miracle as a supernatural work of God, then I would say that God certainly does supernatural works today. “When Paul went into Corinth, he established a local body there not by using clever words, but in a demonstration of the Spirit’s power.”Yes, for that particular time. Again, they were signs authenticating a divinely commissioned teacher, Paul. Just as in Jesus, Moses, “Now that the Bible is completed and put into one tome, do you believe that this demonstration, any demonstration, of the Spirit’s power is no longer necessary”? Who ever said that the Spirit’s power has diminished? No one here is saying that. If you are asking, that the same signs and wonders that the apostles did are being done in our present time, then I would emphatically would have to say, with a resounding NO. Unless you or anyone else can give the world solid evidence to the fact that, God has giving new revelations to a specific person or group. Which goes against everything that He is. Anyone brought back from the dead recently, that we haven’t heard of? “Yes, you sound like a MacArthur devotee.” No, my devotion is to God and His Word. It’s all there for all to read and understand. I don’t go by mysticism or here-say or speculations. My God has giving me FULL revelation as to who He is and His glorious majesty and that He is a God of order, not confusion or chaos. MacArthur is not the author or authority of Scripture, God is.”As to the “ancient, foreign language”, to what are you referring?  The 120 that poured out into the streets of Jerusalem during Pentecost spoke myriad languages.”Correct. Again, they were signs authenticating the works of God, to all those that were there from different regions and languages. as the 120 spoke in their native tongue.
     Acts 2:5-11 “Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.”No need of tongues for today, when we have His written Word and His full revelation. Most Biblical miracles happened in three relatively brief periods of Bible history, the days of Moses and Joshua, during the ministries of Elijah and Elisha and thirdly, in the time of Christ and the apostles. None of those periods lasted much more than 100 years. Each of them, each of the three experienced a proliferation of miracles unheard of at other times in God’s redemptive history. But even during those three times, miracles were not just normal, every day occurrences that happened to anybody and everybody. The miracles that did happen in the time of Moses and Joshua involved Moses and Joshua. The miracles that happened in the time of Elijah and Elisha happened around the ministries of Elijah and Elisha. And the miracles that happened to Christ and the apostles and through them, happened through their ministries. There weren’t just miracles happening all over everywhere to all kinds of people.”I fear you shall only continue to tote the cessationist talking points line.  You remind me of Galatians.  All letter and no Spirit.”It is sad, when the enemy brings someone to question another person’s spirituality or his position in Christ. It is also sad when we allow him and don’t recognize his schemes. You disagree, fine. You are not willing to accept scripture or the history of the church, pertaining to “miracles” gifts and the work of the Holy Spirit for today, fine. But to go there and question another person’s relationship in the Lord, in the light of the Holy Spirit, is just incomprehensible, questionable and wrong. 2For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand.But why listen the the Lord. He really didn’t mean that. Even though he made it a point in telling us, “see, I have told you in advance” 

  • Mmargarit

    Again to clarify my position regarding “miracles” signs and wonders. We need to separate the providence of God from signs and wonders.
    Where would you go to authenticate all of these miracles that are being performed within the charismatic movement? The person performing them? The recipient? Or the Scriptures. And what did Jesus say regarding these signs and wonders that would be performed in the last days? “For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you in advance.” Matthew 24:24,25. 

    Many didn’t accept Jesus works, just as they don’t accept Him or the Word of God now. Nothing has chance. Not because they have made up their mind, but because, their hearts have already been hardened and salvation is not for everyone. If it was, hell would be a vacated place.

    My mind has been made because we are to accept the authority of Scripture. God can do whatever He wants, at any time, destroy this world and start all over again. That’s not the point. The discussion is not about His awesome power. It’s about the so called “miracles” being authoritatively and performed by Him and from Him today. Pandemonium, chaos, Vs. Order

    “Delusion is the most frightful of mindsets because its very definition precludes you from realizing your state.”

    Good question and statement to ask, the people that have not a single stand in Scripture,  not questioning the validity and authenticity of all these so called “miracles”

    And the question that we need to ask ourselves is, as you put it, are we being delusional in accepting a work of Satan within our midst and calling it the works of God. If it was so important to Jesus to warn us and to tell us that he was telling us in advance.  

    Where is scripture that says otherwise? None here to disproof them or the work of God pertaining to “miracles” Only innuendoes as to someone’s position in Christ. As usual, when they don’t have concrete evidence to backup their positions.

  • Truly, this is indeed the saddest lengthy comment my eyes have ever had to digest.

    Go ahead and have the last word, Mmargarit.  I know you need it.

  • Beverly

    I like what you have to say.  It makes me think outside of the box.

  • Beverly

    I looked up the scripture.  I’m not sure what your trying to imply.  Perhaps you don’t understand the point of that scripture.  All good things come from God.  If someone heals someone in his name of what bad is that?

  • wineandsong

    Donald, from an observer’s perspective you are the one trying to get the last word in, just fyi.

Close
Please support the site
By clicking any of these buttons you help our site to get better
Social PopUP by SumoMe