Does God Really Call Women to Just Submit? A Response to “Submission Theology” and the Criticism of Patriarchal Christianity


Much of the teachings of the Bible are seen as oppressive and arcane, especially to the sensibilities of modern, egalitarian, and progressive cultures. The teachings of the Bible, therefore, have not been short of criticism. Perhaps some of the most infamous condemnations of scripture and the depiction of God’s character in its pages have been made by Richard Dawkins in The God Delusion. He wrote,

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” (The God Delusion, p.51)

And often those who teach the scripture are cast into this same mold, as bigoted, misogynistic, and patriarchally oppressive. Such similar criticism have now fallen at the feet of Bill Gothard, a minister, speaker, writer, and founder of the Institute of Basic Life Principles. The Twitter-verse has been set a-rage with condemning and vituperative tones in response to an article published by Alternet entitled Cultish Christian Leader Teaches Women Should Submit to Husbands — Victims of His “Submission Theology” Speak Out.

Sarah Posner, the author of this article, catches this teacher backpedaling from his statements “wives submit yourselves to your own husband” and “she should submit to me, that’s in the Bible.” She, of course, found this sort of teaching arcane and oppressive—seeing it as “cultish.”

She is not alone, of course, but a chorus of voices have joined her on twitter saying such things as “Submission theology: it’s for weak men” and “Submission theology: putting your boots on the necks of women in the name of God.”

The criticism extends far beyond this particular man, whom I do not know personally and whom I do not wish to defend.The particular criticisms and smudging of some biblical and theological teachings do, however, require a response.

Gothard, used as a representative of patriarchal and oppressive Christians, is cited as teaching that a man serves as an “umbrella of authority” under which his wife and family are protected. The husband, according to the “damnable” teachings of Gothard, is responsible for the physical and spiritual protection and growth of the family. This authority, Gothard’s critics say, leads to tyrannical and oppressive authority under which children and wives are left with little to no freedom.

Gothard’s “victims” bemoaned the outlandish teachings of this vile pastor. According to one former congregant, “Gothard required total submission to God, doesn’t matter what you think, want, or feel, it only matters what God wants.” Moreover, “Women are taught how to ‘radiate the brightness of the Lord Jesus Christ through their thoughts, words, and actions,’ becoming ‘virtuous women,’ and recognizing the importance of ‘falling in love with the Lord, accepting your design and realizing your unique gifts.” One woman even blamed her father for still being single to this day because he oppressively disallowed dating. Rather, her father insisted on courtship—an approach to relationships in which God is sought and marriage becomes the primary focus. Many women, now “freed” from their husbands and fathers whom believed and practiced such things collectively described their former lives as dogmatic and a real life story of “brainwashing.”

The heart of the criticisms are feminist in nature.

Feminism, to be clear, is not some evil or distorting system of beliefs as some evangelicals believe. If feminism is about equality between the sexes, than Paul the Apostle was the greatest feminist of the ancient world—making outlandish claims that there is no division is sex or class within the body of Christ. He wrote, “There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Galatians 3:28)

However, Paul elsewhere in his epistles makes clear the authority and hierarchy of how relationships function within this equality. While there are dozens of examples, a clear picture is painted in Ephesians 5:22-33

“Wives, submit to your own husbands as to the Lord, for the husband is head of the wife as also Christ is head of the church. He is the Savior of the body. Now as the church submits to Christ, so wives should [submit] to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as also Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her, to make her holy, cleansing her in the washing of water by the word. He did this to present the church to Himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but holy and blameless. In the same way, husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hates his own flesh, but provides and cares for it, just as Christ does for the church, since we are members of His body.

For this reason a man will leave his father and mother

and be joined to his wife,

and the two will become one flesh.

This mystery is profound, but I am talking about Christ and the church. To sum up, each one of you is to love his wife as himself, and the wife is to respect her husband.”

Too often all attention is given to the first few lines of this image and commandment. Wives are to submit to their husbands as they are to submit to the Lord. The commandment is clear. But the image, in reality, has so much more to say to the husband whom are to love their wives as Christ loved the church and GAVE HIMSELF FOR HER. The image of Christ and his service is radical. Though when one looks at the gospels and sees the clear argument that all authority was given to him over the physical and spiritual world, he was a servant of remarkable humility. He did the work of slaves, though himself being the king of kings.

This is what husbands are called to—radical, boundless, and unbelievable love and service. Though I may be biased (being a husband and father myself), this seems like a much more difficult command than that which was given to the woman.

The importance of this image, which Paul calls a “great mystery” in the closing verses, is that marriage and the unity which exists within it is supposed to be a perfect image of our creator established from the beginning. “So God created man in His own image; He created him in the image of God; he created them male and female.” (Genesis 1:27) Man is not a perfect picture of God. Neither is woman a picture of our creator. Only together do they reflect the God whom exists in perpetual and perfect communion—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Though each having their own roles, they place themselves in hierarchy. The Father is the head of authority while the son submits himself to the Father. Though they are equal, a hierarchy of authority and submission, service and love, is part of the very core of the Christian gospel and nature of God. A proper theology toward marriage necessarily reflects this nature and divine truth.

There are serious crimes against women, there is no question about that. Things which turn the stomach and cry out to God for justice. Being a father of a little girl myself, some of the atrocious things done to little girls the world over are the real oppressions done by vile and evil men. Such is the case when six Muslim men beheaded three young Christian girls walking to school 2005. These young girls’ bodies were dumped in the village from which they came in Central Sulawesi, Indonesia. One girl’s head was placed in a plastic bag, left on the steps of a Christian Church as a warning to the Christian community. This is oppression, and a vile and evil form of it. These women are real victims of terrible crimes. God’s judgement will rain down on such men.

In the case of Posner and the “victims” of Gothard, they would seem to have less an issue with distorted and aberrant theology and more so a disdain toward biblical teaching. There is no question that such truths taught from the scripture are offensive to modern sensibilities. But just because people are offended by them does not make the scripture vile and in need of revision. Perhaps we need revising instead.



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  • Kayla K.

    Excellent post Jon, I really enjoyed reading.

  • Lee Jansen

    The graphics are a tad bit over-reaching, in keeping with the point of your post. Quite frankly, it seems a defense of your opposition.

  • Anonymous

    I have often taught that Christ is teaching men to give themselves “sacrificially” to their wives. Sometimes men can skirt around the “give of yourself” language because giving up a few things does not equal sacrifice. The greatest thing that Christ did was sacrifice himself for us, regardless of the sin, He did it. Unconditional Love.

    When we start looking at our marriages in that light, as men, we will constantly be focused on how to serve instead of being served. If I am honest, majority of our household arguements, stem out of my selfishness or my unwillingness to serve.

  • Anonymous

    Yeah, the little girl picture makes my stomach turn a bit, for various reasons.

    You made an interesting point about it… one would assume he was agreeing with them, based off of just visual aids… wouldn’t they.

  • The little girl beheaded is disgusting, I admit. Whether I should have put the picture up or not, the point I am making is that such crimes do in fact exist. They are disgusting. And the image demonstrates, more than my words, the depth of pain and hurt men can do to women—as fathers, husbands, and as patriarchal oppressors. I am not arguing that these things don’t exist, but that they don’t really exist here in this theology as Paul ment it.

    As always, thanks for commenting!

  • Eric

    I think that this is something that we really need to come to grips with as modern day christians. While the Bible makes clear that women and men are of equal value, the hierarchy in marriage exists. It comes down to a point where we must accept that christian values are not entirely consistent with the modern day ethics that have stemmed from the feminist movement.

  • Anonymous

    If someone looked at my life now (stay home mom, currently homeschooling, active in my husband’s ministries at church, encouraging women to love, respect and submit to their husbands, working part time from home, etc.), they would have a hard time believing I was once a staunch feminist. But it’s true, and I believe I will always call myself a “Recovering Feminist” since that way of thinking is so difficult to completely eradicate from my mind.

    I fought for equality, majored in a predominantly male subject, took classes as a freshman with only upper class men and fought to be viewed as equal, practiced hard to play high school football (dad stopped me), and had zero intentions of marrying or having children. I am pretty sure I had keychains and bumper stickers that proclaimed my place as a woman–above men. I planned to be a doctor and work in an oppressed culture. Alone.

    The Lord saved me, and then began His great work of sanctification, and I came to understand Biblical Manhood and Womanhood. Then I worked hard to change my thinking, and married the most incredible pastor, who leads me quietly and gently, yet surely. Who values my opinion and asks for my help, but accepts his place as the one accountable to God for our family.

    And what I have found has shocked me.


    Freedom to be who God created me to be.
    Freedom to live out roles that bring me immeasurable joy.
    Freedom to serve my family with gladness.

    Praise the Lord He created structure and order for the family and the church. Praise Him He revealed that structure to us.

  • Jim

    Great article, Jon! Unfortunately too many people do stop after the part about wives submitting. They don’t read the part about the husbands’ responsibility and they never consider that Jesus was a perfect example of submission. And submission is not being a doormat – when the one being submitted to lives up to his God-given responsibility, the marriage has a real opportunity to be a “marriage made in heaven.” Well-done, Jon!

  • Judy Bechtel

    The bible certainly does advocate inequality.  A submissive is certainly not an equal. 

  • Judy Bechtel

    To submit means to loose all your freedom.  Your bible is advocating slavery for women. 

  • Judy,

    I agree!  When we submit, as men and women to God Himself, and in the roles He has ordained for us, it is loosing our freedoms.  Freedom in Christ, indeed and in His Scriptural authority!

    Nicely said!

  • Judy,

    You are correct.  Some folks believe God is fair, but in reality He is just.  Big difference.  Abraham Lincoln said that all men are created equal, but it is more true that the New Covenant imparts spiritual equality.

    My bride’s submission to me is a blessing to her, as she walks out the role my  Father has given her.  In this we are as equals: equal worth, yet different roles.   It is a great mystery, much like Jesus and His Bride.

  • “There is no question that such truths taught from the scripture are
    offensive to modern sensibilities. But just because people are offended
    by them does not make the scripture vile and in need of revision.
    Perhaps we need revising instead.”


    Amen and WOW!

    However, it is obvious to me that The Scriptures and the MEN in them are archaic, out-dated, outmoded, and basically COMPLETELY out-of-touch with our new Christianity and post-modern enlightenment and evolved mindsets.

    Example:  Paul the APostle who was  just a misogynistic homophobe.  See for yourself.

    Long Live the New Church and progressive theology!  We cast down the evil Fundamentalism of religion past and embrace a new Christianity based on “Did God reaaaaaly say….” 

    (sarc off)

  • haha. You had me going with that video! I hear you. Pumped on the vlog bit. It makes me want to try it out a bit. What is interesting, however, is the need for us to continually challenge and reform the church and the scriptures—not that we would literally reject the words on the pages but that we would continually reconsider our interpretations of the scriptures. A clear example of this might be the homosexual issue which you brought up in the video. Check this bit out and tell me what you think.

  • Judy

    The bible advocates freedom for men, just not for women. The bible tell women to treat their husbands like god.  Isn’t that worshipping false gods?

  • The Bible in no place demands that women treat men as Gods. In fact, if looking at the entire whole of scripture, the Bible gives woman incredible freedom and liberty, especially in the cultures and times in which it was written. 

    Paul goes further and declares that there are no Greeks or Jews, Rich or Poor, Male or Female in the Body of Christ. All are equal. This kind of equality was a radical notion in the first century, dissolving  wealth, race, and gender. 

    If there are specific verses you are referring to, I would love to address them. 

  • Julbek

    men are just more equal than women, Huh.

  • Julbek

    Submit to your husband (master/head) as to the lord.  The bible is filled with treating women like the lowest bug on the planet.  How can any man that loves women advocate the horrible things the bible says about them.  Submission is slavery-not to god-but to who the god of the bible says is superior to her-her husband/master/head.  This could not have been written by God-God does not hate women, and whoever wrote those”be submissive and shut up” verses obviously hates women

  • Judy,

    While I can understand your frustrations your assertions about the Bible’s view of women is incorrect.

    Hebrew society was one of the very first ancient civilizations that allowed for daughters to be heirs. Deborah was a Judge (think leader) of Israel.  Fast forwarding to the NT, after Jesus rises from the dead angels explain this fact to women. Finally, as mentioned above, Paul tells us that is God’s eyes there is equality despite sex.

    What all this amounts to is that that Bible is an extremely progressive document. The rights that it ascribed to women were radically out of place in the ancient world. Today, the bible still offers a better life to those who submit. Men, by submitting themselves to God, become more loving and LESS oppressive husbands/men. Women, by submitting themselves to God first and then their husbands, allow themselves to become more charitable and patient. 

    What both sexes are doing is submitting to Jesus. When we accept his Lordship and adhere to his example we cannot help but become better human beings whether we are man or woman.

  • JUDY

    Progressive, huh.  What rights are you talking about-the right to be a slave to a man, or the right to shut up and embracetheir inferiority.  What kind of god would hate one half of the world that way.  It is extremely  degrading to a person-you wouldn’t know-the bible gives you privlege, and self-esteem.  The bible makes me want to crawl in a hole, and kill myself.  You men don’t understand how damaging the bible is to women.  It treats them somewhere between a cockroach and a flea.  It took me many years to give up organized religion, and start to have self-esteem.  The bible causes me to hate.  In fact, whenever I started to like somebody, all I had to do was read those “be submissive and shut up” verses, and I ran the other way.  My opinion of men is that all they wanted to do was dominate.  It inspired such hate in me.  Hate towards men, and especially hate towards myself.  Why would god create me only to become a slav.

  • Judy,

    I notice that you make a lot of claims about the Bible’s supposed mistreatment of women. Perhaps you are right. 

    Please cite us some references where women are treated “somewhere between a cockroach and a flea” or where they are told to “shut up and embracthier(sic) inferiority”?

  • JUDY

    The passage telling women not to speak in church is the one telling women to shut up.  The others are my take on the verses about submission, uncleanliness, men only being in the image of god, and the part where it states men are the “head”.  I don’t want to look at them because I will get so depressed I may want to kill myself  if I look at them.  It’s kind of a jolt to the old self-esteem and self respect.  If you are a man, the bible does not say such vile things about you.  I had to leave the bible and christianity behind for my self-preservation. 

  • Judy, I am very sorry that you think the bible says things that it does not.  No where does the bible say women are to “shut up” and when it says they are to “keep silent” in church it doesn’t literally mean say nothing.  I’m not sure where you get your bible interpretations from, but I’d suggest you look again, maybe with some help from people who have studied the original languages and cultural contexts.  If you want some great teachers check out John Piper, R.C. Sproul, Mark Driscoll or even James White or Matt Slick. 

    However, it seems to me that you’re more interested in your own perception of the world and are not interested in what others, even God has to say since you’ve already thrown out your bible and Christian faith because you want to feel good about yourself or at least keep your self-esteem high enough. 

    That being said, why would you want to kill yourself because of what the bible says If you’ve already thrown away any faith in it (I’m assuming that means you think its not true)?  Do you think that the bible is true and you hate it or do you think its wrong and that you’re on your own path to God?  I’m very confused by a lot of what you’ve said, and saddened by your experience and will pray that God opens your eyes to the truth of Scripture and that your heart is changed from a focus on your own well-being to focusing on glorifying God in your womanhood.

  • WHaynes

    Christ submitted to God, his Father. We are all (men and women) called to do the same. 

    We are all called to consider others as better than ourselves, and to submit to one another. 

    Jesus, the Creator of all things and the one who holds the Universe together, washed the feet of his disciples…even the one who was to betray him. We are called to love in this way, just as he did.

    For those who find the concept of “submission” insufferable, misogynistic, the how do you call Christ “Lord”? Every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord. We are all to submit to him. He sees no male or female, yet, he calls us “The Bride of Christ”, and, yes, we are to submit to the Groom! 

    Men, be Christ to your wives. Wives, submit to your husbands. Consider one another as better than yourselves. Men, wash your wives feet, and love them as Christ loved us – even to the point of daily dying for her.

    And, for those who still don’t get it: it is NOT possible for someone to submit unless they are equal to (or above) someone else. The call to submission is NOT a statement of “natural order”, but of humility and laying down one’s rightful place to take on the role of a servant (or “slave”/”bond-servant” in the Greek)…just as Christ did!

    This may sound harsh, but GROW UP, people of God. Serve one another. Submission IS Godliness. Jesus proved that. Anyone, and I do mean ANYONE, who cannot submit or is against so called “Submission Theology” simply does not know who Jesus is, was, or will be revealed to be.

  • JUDY

    I threw out the bible because I didn’t want to kill myself( I wouldn’t want to do that to family) not so I would have high self-esteem.  The bible is evil to women.  Yes, it did cause me to hate myself , and thats my fault-I chose to let those vile words destroy my life.  My  point is that the bible may be good for you (and since you are the group God actually likes, maybe thats why) but it is certainly not good for everyone. 

  • JUDY

    For the man!

  • Deacon Lou

    I find it hard to comment on an article as cynical and ignorant as this one, but I simply can’t let this go. One of the reasons our world is in its current condition (poor, starving, homeless, jobless, spiritually lost, dying, sick, broken, confused, shattered, depressed, suicidal, etc….) has a lot to do with the fact that people, in general (men, women & children), have turned their backs on God! We are in control and a deep seated fear and/or resentment of others wells up within us when someone tries to tell us that “control” is a figment of our imagination. 

    The sooner we all start focusing on our own problems/issues and let God deal with the problems/issues of others, the better off everyone will be in the end. I don’t allege to know Bill Gothard as a personal friend, but I know several people that do. They have worked with him and/or known him for more than 40 years and have nothing bad to say about the man. I have personally been to several of his conferences with my wife and family (the most recent one being less than 2 months ago), and I can tell you that we are a better, more loving, caring and more secure family because of his teachings. 
    It’s unfortunate that you are not comfortable with his teachings, but he only teaches what he has read and studied from the Bible and what the good Lord leads him to teach. My guess is that you don’t subscribe to being submissive to anything or anyone, and that you’ve not had a life altering event that is not explainable by natural science? Because of this, you dismiss this man’s teachings (and likely any man’s teachings that do not fit into your view of the world) as oppressive and archaic, even though he quotes directly from the Bible. Finally, I noticed you leave out the part where he also teaches that Husband’s ought to love their wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her (Ephesians 5:25). He does not teach one, without emphasizing the other, because the “umbrella” only works when all of the parts are functioning as God intended. Do us all a favor, the next time you intend to slander the good name of a Godly man, either 1) attend his conferences and get a real understanding of what you are writing about or 2)  you may choose to act according to 1 Corinthians 14:24.

    The two greatest illusions ever perpetrated on man, by Satan:

    1) Heaven and Hell really don’t exist.

    2) God and Satan, along with angels and demons are something that exist in fairy tales and fictional books. 

    I assure you they are all very real and one day soon we will all be faced with a choice that will alter our eternity forever. God wishes that none should perish, no not one! For that reason, I will be praying that you see the light very soon. God bless.

  • Deacon Lou


    I’m not sure what game Satan is playing with you, but I assure you, you are being deceived. Before you jump on the feminist band-wagon as a full time member, I urge you to read the book of Ephesians and Galations. They are short books in the Bible, but will prove to be a wealth of knowledge about how God’s plan effects all of us. God does not wish to oppress or discard the importance of women.  As a matter of fact, God realized the importance of a woman to a man in Genesis. 

    My wife is not just my partner, she is also my primary, earthly, advisor and I covet her prayers and intuition when it comes time for making decisions that effect my family. In the end, I have to live with my decisions, but I have learned a long time ago that my wife must be included in them, else God will deal with me for not doing so…..and I only have half of the wisdom necessary for making good decisions (without including my wife). 

    I’m not sure if you’ve been around men that don’t believe in what I’ve written above, but I assure you, and my wife will attest, that we are all (men and women) clay in the master potter’s hands. If we choose to dry up and have hardened hearts, then it will be difficult for God to work miracles in our lives. We have to be open and accepting of His molding and it is quite beautiful what He can do when we receive Him openly and lovingly into our lives.

    I will be praying for you to find someone to help you see the beauty of God in yourself and in others.

  • JUDY

    So, you are a nice master to your wife. Maybe you even let her make some minor decisions for herself.  It is not freedom, and not equality for her.  The god of the bible hates women, thinks they are the lowest form of insect.  If you are a woman-bible god hates you.  Wants you to become a slave of men.  Of course, I do not believe in the bible god, but I do believe in God.  A God of equality and love-not masters and slaves.  If satan is the one telling me I am equal to any man, then so be it.  I would rather be told I am equal, than the bible god opinion that i (and all women) are trash.  I kind of see how men would like the bible god-they are the golden children (as opposed to the hated ones).  Give me liberty or give me death!!!!!! 

  • JUDY

    The bible god hates women.  You are a man-so you do not know what it is like to be hated so totally-bible god wants to make a slave of you!!!  If men think that bible god loves women so much-why aren’t they trying to get things changed-oh, it’s because women have n o rights in organized religion.  They are slaves in marriage, and have not rights or privledges in the church.  I believe in God, but not the bible god.  That god is cruel and unjust.  The bible god even wants you to kill people who work on Sunday.  the bible  HATES women.  So, it’s good you are a nice master to your wife, at least

  • JUDY

    So, men are like God to their wives?  So, a person who submits (yields their will to another, completely giving up any free will) is equal or above the master that they yield to?  I find that hard to believe.  Does that mean we are equal or above God?  I can see the bible god, because that god is mean-but the real God is above us, and much more fair and giving than bible god.  Bible god hates women.  These submission verses are vile-unless it is equal submission.  it’s a master/slave relationship.  Even if the wife/slave has a nice master/head/husband, she is not FREE.  God is probably shaking in God’s boots, the way some ignorant, uneducated people put word in god’s mouth. 

  • Judy I don’t mean to be rude here, but what are you smoking?  I see you posting all sorts of garbage with nothing to back up your claims. 

    “…thinks they are the lowest form of insect”
    “Wants you to become a slave of men”
    “bible god opinion that I (and all women) are trash”

    Prove it.

    Either you are seriously messed up or just a goofy troll.

    Going with the assumption (how smart is that) that you are serious, where do you get any information on this god you think you believe in, and what does “f satan is the one telling me I am equal to any man, then so be it.” even mean?  Are you seriously saying that you think Satan is better than the Holy Trinity?  If you do think that, where do you get what you believe of Satan? 

  • JUDY

    What about all the submissive verses?  Right up there with slaves submitting.  Doesn’t that tell you something?  Wake up, girls-bible god HATES you.  Tells you to shut up and submit.  Oh, and that you are unclean.  Oh, and treat your husband like god-isn’t that worshipping false gods.   And men-do you really need someone to feel superior to?  The bible tells you to be nice to your little slave-I guess that’s about as much as you’ll get in the form of equality, huh. Having one person (husband, head, master) have all the power in a relationship is bound to cause trouble. 

  • JUDY

    Freedom to be a slave?  Freedom to have no choices?  Freedom to have no control over your life?  Freedom to have no rights?  Freedom to have no say in anything that concerns you?  Which of these freedoms are you talking about?

  • JUDY

    Bible god HATES women.  and so do all the men who keep putting them down.

  • Judy, all you are doing is further illustrating your lack of understanding of the text.  You read what you want into the text and everyone can see it.  You have no idea what those scripture passages mean and pervert what they say.

  • JUDY

    If I don’t know what a word means, I look it up in the dictionary.  That way I am sure to know what it means.

  • JUDY

    Is Satan giving me autonomy and self worth?  The bible wants to put women into slavery-no if, ands, or buts.  To submit is to yield to the will of another, therefore, you have no free will and are not free.  I’m glad you are a nice master to your wife, but if you believe in the submissive verses, that’s what you are to her.  That’s a lot of power you have over another adult.  I  hope all you slave-masters treat your slaves well-after all they have given all their freedom over to you.

  • JUDY

    Seriously guys-if you truly loved your wife, wouldn’t you want her to have the same rights and privleges as you enjoy-both at home and in organized religion?

  • chris

    To judy, the bible doesn’t say that women are as low as cockreaxhes but it does make clear that they are the.lowest form of human life (God first as head of men, men next as head of women…..). Hope this helps.

  • Donna

    I have just lost my faith because of what an oppressive pastor told me. It seems that all the time I have believed in a God who loves me I was duped. I have just been told that I am a second class citizen. The hieracchy goes from God to Man to woman. Women you might note are to submit to sinful man whereas men to sinless God. And that God condones the violence to women and that they, like Sarah, should suffer and like it (if they love God that is). I can’t believe the evil. I told him straight that either God loves me and I am under him or there is no God. Apparently that means that there is no God.

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